Ralph's Room

Taming where your system sings...

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Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Mon May 09, 2011 12:22 am

There hasn't been much activity on the forum of late, so little new is big news. :)

I have been slowly building a dedicated audio room underneath my house and excavated nearly 90 m3 of clay. This has taken me a few years (8), usually a few hours each weekend. Progress was slow but steady. All the foundations are done, the footings, the new posts and beams are complete.

I have been waiting since December to lay the main slab (7 x 10m). With all the wet weather there is a backlog of 4 months to book concrete trucks and pumps. But last Thursday, it finally happened - the slab is laid.

Floor1.jpg
Leveling off the floor
Floor1.jpg (60.38 KiB) Viewed 12019 times


Now to finish preparing the attached outdoor sunken courtyard (25m2 ) and pour it's slab.
Add walls and ceiling.
Add paint and carpet.
Install speakers
Tweak system
Re-tweak system
Simple ! :roll:

Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby JarreYuri on Mon May 09, 2011 4:19 am

A dedicated room!... Very nice indeed. 8-)
I guess You are very exited about this right!? ;) :P

Keep on posting photos on the development!
The one who succeeded was the one who did not know it was impossible!
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Vansloneker on Fri May 13, 2011 5:32 pm

What he says. Make the best of it and keep us posted.
poor guy
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Sat May 14, 2011 4:23 am

Thanks for the encouragement.
It's been so long in the process that the excitment is wearing off. Sometimes I just want to have it finished.
Unfortunately I have recently developed chronic bronchiectasis and now find it difficult to relax to listen to music as I would sit and cough and cough.
My wife has been very supportive, (either that or she realy wants those speakers out of Her living room). :P

I am thinking of using Hebel (aerated concrete) for the walls. Has anyone had experience with that?

Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Scinemaniac on Sat May 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Hi Ralph

Three ideas:
1. Make floor slightly trapezoidal, that sidewalls diverge hence no flutter echo.

2. Cover main reflection point on sidewalls with 1dimensional Quadratic Residue Diffuser, near-floor to near-ceiling. Ideally a Fractal QRD so effective over a wider band of frequencies.
(Toine Dingemans <thingman@kpnplanet.nl> on this forum specialises in room treatment, and has advised through the forum. He can suggest a form with folded "combs" eg. occupying depth < 200mm which acts quite low in frequency. Toine is currently walking the mighty Camino de Santiago, likely back by October 2011.) I do not know where to source the fractal "comb" inserts, but production run in plastic would be best.

Fractal QRD across the back wall would be good too (however not behind the front wall, behind the speakers). The effect of QRD basically simulates a larger acoustic space, although the listener needs to be a way away from the QRD for it to work. So unfortunately QRD cannot work in small spaces (also because it makes the room smaller being at least 100mm deep).

3. Consider using a kind of block ("batt") loved by architects as ceiling treatment. The one I am thinking of appears to be made from wood shavings sprayed with cement. It is very open weave and absorbs sound well. It creates a cosy sound in a room with otherwise hard surfaces. I assume that the floor of your subterranean room will not be carpeted as that might cause damp build up. With current fashion for floors to be wood, some absorbent on the ceiling would be preferred. I recall the "batts" as sized something like 300mm or 400mm x 750mm x 50mm. They butt together, can be sawn to size and are light in weight. Their light-grey colour can be spray-painted any other colour.

Maybe will get a chance to try these out one day myself (wish.... wish....)
Good luck
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Mon May 16, 2011 7:33 am

Scinematic
You have some good advice there.

Across the back wall, I intend to have floor to ceiling, full-width bookcases.

The QRDs are a good idea but I will add those after the room is complete, primarily to see if I need them (probably do).

Drainage is not a problem, so the room will be carpeted.

Do you have a brand name or something for the ceiling panels ?

Still digging,
Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Scinemaniac on Mon May 16, 2011 2:16 pm

http://cnliyin.en.made-in-china.com/pro ... Panel.html

This is the closest that I could find, in appearance and construction.
Wonder what they cost?

best wishes
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Scinemaniac on Mon May 16, 2011 2:28 pm

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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:58 am

Update time.
1 My bronchiectasis has abated (Thanks God!), still coughing but I'm no longer struggling for breath every five minutes.
2 The outside slab was poured today.

patio1.jpg
patio1.jpg (47.26 KiB) Viewed 11629 times


Now to do my tax and get money together ...

Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Graz on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:46 am

Ere Ralph

You might want to see ho things go this coming wet season before brining those Calsigs downstairs!!!

Pleased yours cough's easing...

tc-g
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby esl_57 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:46 pm

A purpose built room. Nice!
Just curious, up here in Canada we would put cuts into the slab a day or two after pouring, to control shrinkage as the slab cures. Also, you mentioned clay conditions. That kind of soil experiences huge amounts of swelling and contraction as the moisture content in the soil changes. that alone would crack the slab.
Was the slab engineered?

Ralph wrote:There hasn't been much activity on the forum of late, so little new is big news. :)

I have been slowly building a dedicated audio room underneath my house and excavated nearly 90 m3 of clay. This has taken me a few years (8), usually a few hours each weekend. Progress was slow but steady. All the foundations are done, the footings, the new posts and beams are complete.

I have been waiting since December to lay the main slab (7 x 10m). With all the wet weather there is a backlog of 4 months to book concrete trucks and pumps. But last Thursday, it finally happened - the slab is laid.

Floor1.jpg


Now to finish preparing the attached outdoor sunken courtyard (25m2 ) and pour it's slab.
Add walls and ceiling.
Add paint and carpet.
Install speakers
Tweak system
Re-tweak system
Simple ! :roll:

Ralph
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:48 pm

esl_57 wrote:A purpose built room. Nice!
Just curious, up here in Canada we would put cuts into the slab a day or two after pouring, to control shrinkage as the slab cures. Also, you mentioned clay conditions. That kind of soil experiences huge amounts of swelling and contraction as the moisture content in the soil changes. that alone would crack the slab.
Was the slab engineered?


Sorry for late reply, been very busy of late.

There is no official engineer overseeing the project (just me).
The slab was laid according to Australian standards with heaps of steel mesh and on a 125mm bed of gravel (cracker dust) which absorbs a lot of the ground movement. Because the slab area is mainly enclosed and partially underground, the soil temperature is relatively constant. Humidity is controlled by drainage around the site. Over the first few days, we kept the slab wet which slows and evens the curing. There have been no cracks, not even hairline fractures. The guys who did the cementing normally do swimming pools (no cracks allowed there).

Cheers
Ralph
PS Happy New year to you all.
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby ThingMan on Tue May 15, 2012 9:59 am

Ralph wrote:I have been slowly building a dedicated audio room underneath my house and excavated nearly 90 m3 of clay. This has taken me a few years (8), usually a few hours each weekend. Progress was slow but steady. All the foundations are done, the footings, the new posts and beams are complete.
Ralph


Ralph, big project!!! One day it'll pay off, I'm sure...
Any idea about the final dimensions of the rough work, i.e. the concrete boundaries of length, width and height?
Have you considered to aim for optimum dimensions /ratio? I'm not talking about some old-fashioned golden-ratio-thing, but a more modern approach of the optimum ratio design...
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Fri May 18, 2012 8:15 am

Almost missed this one. Have not been active for a while (health issues).
Finished room should be roughly:

Room.jpg
Room.jpg (20.17 KiB) Viewed 11018 times


Height is 2.56m (2.4 to bottom of 200mm beams)

A is proposed speaker placement
B is opening to outdoor patio.

I'm open to suggestions ie place speakers along "back" wall by B

Cheers
Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Fri May 20, 2016 12:55 am

5 years later ! - I can't believe that time flies so quickly. :oops:
A lot has changed while the room was on hold, I have been blessed with an improvement in health and a job to earn some money. :D
In the interim, drainage and external courtyard has been built.

Courtyard.jpg
Courtyard.jpg (129.46 KiB) Viewed 3694 times


Today the hebel walls are going up - and the room is finally taking shape.
Big Champange moment !

Music room wall.jpg
Music room wall.jpg (60 KiB) Viewed 3694 times


Keep well
Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Vansloneker on Fri May 20, 2016 7:41 pm

I wonder, why under the house? By the pictures it seems your house is put on steel bars, but also on the pictures it seems there's plenty of space around your house. So a room adjacent to the house would not have been impossible? I am just curious.
poor guy
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Ralph on Sat May 21, 2016 6:27 am

Vansloneker wrote:I wonder, why under the house? By the pictures it seems your house is put on steel bars, but also on the pictures it seems there's plenty of space around your house. So a room adjacent to the house would not have been impossible? I am just curious.



Great question.
Yes there is plenty of land around the house (40ha / 110acres).
However:
1 This was a project build, which was always going to take time. ( A lot longer than I anticipated, but I never factored in unemployment, and chronic illness). An external build needs to be done quickly, which we did not have the funds for.
2 The house itself is/was on wooden posts, 1.8m high. I am 1.94m, so I kept banging my head and wanting to properly use the space. The music room (about 1/3 of the house) has been excavated by 1m and the steel beams put in as we went. You can see the height difference on the courtyard photo, the ground level is what the original ground level was under the house. Yes, there was a lot of manual digging, all clay fortunately.
3 Within the confines of the house is generally not subject to council approval for alterations, structural alterations are. No further comment. :?

A bit further to go, but a big step forward.

Cheers
Ralph
I don't drink too much coffee - you're listening too slowly.
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Re: Ralph's Room

Postby Vansloneker on Sat May 21, 2016 7:12 pm

No complaining neighbors when your system is playing, that's for sure! Great project, I hope you'll finish and enjoy it soon.
poor guy
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