Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby JarreYuri on Mon May 28, 2012 8:16 am

Here are some specs of the amps.
I don't know of the continuous output at 1Ohm though.

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby JarreYuri on Tue May 29, 2012 2:12 pm

I must admit though that I have not had the pleasure of comparing the amps to Krell or any other high priced amp.
So I can not really tell if the sound is very good or just fairly good on these speakers.

But in any case, when I finally got the Scintillas placed the right way there was PURE magic.
There was so much difference in what song I played.
I had some old Frank Sinatra recordings that had a scary space surrounding the speakers both in width and depth.
Quite pleasing!!!
I could not play at deafening volumes but high enough. This because the Denon POA-6600A does NOT double the output if I half the impedance.
I have not clue at all what wattage it puts out continuously at 1 Ohm. :roll:
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Graz on Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 pm

Those Scintillas will gobble up 1.2kw each if you'll let them!! Mad! No amp that can't take that stress in it's stride will have a fun time driving them. BUT they can still sound amazing even by today's standards.

Take care - Graz
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby apogee_admin on Wed May 30, 2012 11:27 am

I have the review from Hi-Fi Choice July 1988. it says it has superb load tolerance and negligible output impedance, which is a good thing.

I owned a pair of these a few years ago, didn't have anything as difficult to drive as a Scintilla, so no useful information on long-term survivability.

Bass was really good, but felt they got a bit tizzy in the mid and treble.

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby JarreYuri on Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:15 pm

Ok, here I am again. ;)

A cheap household amp that can drive a 1 Ohm Scintilla is Technics SU-VX600 that I had laying around.
I could drive speakers well to about 90db level.
The interesting thing with this little amp is that it will throw it's full dynamics with no hesitation until it reaches it's border with a quite noticeable crackling sound.
So it's easy to set a good level and know that it does not cut any dynamics like in a way that tubes does and many other amps.
I don't know if this is thanks to the circuit on these amps.
I played it at it's limits for a good hour or 2.
It got so hot that I could not touch the cover even for 1 SECOND!! But it struggled on. :lol:
I think a fan underneath it would be beneficial. :lol:

I know that this is like swearing in church with all the other splendid HiFi amps that You guys have.
But I thought that I ought to give You a heads up on this one. ;)
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby apogee_admin on Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:51 pm

Denon POA-6600 review Hi-Fi Choice July 1988
Denon_POA-6600.jpg
Denon POA-6600 review Hi-Fi Choice 1988
Denon_POA-6600.jpg (336.36 KiB) Viewed 23179 times
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby JarreYuri on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:32 pm

Ok, so I tried another amp today that made the big test.
This is the Yamaha PC2602M.
I felt pretty confident as it also has a cooling fan that turns on at around 40C and an elaborate safety circuitry.
I managed to get the amp to play and give out 2x100 watt (meters shows wattage at 8 ohm) with no hesitation or frustration. That's 800 watt into 1 ohm. Above that the clip meters started to sporadicly flicker on high output tops. They get lit if distortion is at 1% and above.
After a while the fan started along with the THERMAL light. It switched of after a while and then after a while back on.... As it should do. Great!
One thing that was not so great was the original cooling fan. It was just a notch lower then a regular vacuum cleaner sound wise. :shock:
That has been changed now to a computer case fan from Noctua.
The amp actually uses the standard 120mm case fan size. ;)

The sound was very clean and muscular. A bit more "umph" when it needed to, compared to the Denon POA 6600A mono blocks.
Extremely good holographic and stereo imaging!!!


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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Vansloneker on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:15 am

Now you can bi-amp!
poor guy
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby JarreYuri on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:22 pm

Vansloneker wrote:Now you can bi-amp!


No, I actually sold the mono block pair to an acquaint. One of the blocks had previously been serviced and showed some signs of fault as it blew a fuse once and I had to repair it. Later on it blew a fuse again. This time when I tried to replace the fuse, a big flash shot out and it welded off a piece of material both from the fuse and fuse holder.
2 main transistors had blown and something else was wrong still.
The other mono block had no problems at all.
So I sold them "as is".
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby DeWas on Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000 is at realistic playback level (80 to 90 db) not a good match for a 1-Ohm Scintilla unless you like replacing fuses (2 per amp) or listen at low levels. I've had one Evo 2000 per side and every now and again there would be a music/movie passage (unremarkable to my ears) that would silence a side. I've heard Baryani's Scinnies with the Evo's and they sounded superb on classical and jazz. I had no issues using a single Plinius SA100 MKIII (dual mono) driving the Scintillas and also Henry Ho's S250 Special Edition doesn't have a problem.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Soloist1 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:34 am

8 months and my Bryston 4Be is still running strong. At normal levels it gets fairly warm, but the clip lights never come on. With strong low frequency content over time it gets pretty hot, but it never shuts down and the clip lights still never activate.
It sounds very clean and detailed with incredible bass control.
Hard to say if it could be played at high levels without danger, but for my listening habits I've found no shortcomings, only applause from the people that have dropped in for an evening of listening.

***I have to add that when I got these speakers, they were 1/4 ohm type that had been redone with 1 ohm bass panels. They weren't wire correctly, so even at moderate levels the clip lights came on. Once I got a schematic and wired them properly they are amazing.
Main : Apogee Scintilla, Bryston, Decware ZTPRE, Theta Pearl, Theta DSPro Prime II, MF Nuvista speaker cables, PS Audio power cords, Monster filter

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Carmine on Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:16 am

My Scinnies are still rock'n with my DR3VHC's!! :twisted:
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby gilles13 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:55 am

Hello from France.Have a look on Salvatore last september update.
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RECENT.html#Sept
Bob Carver 's sunfire amp can drive every apogee speakers.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Al^ on Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:52 pm

The 4be will run the scintilla at modest levels, but NOT at high levels, ex: 1812 overture modest levels only dynamics will clip it severly .
I personally use modified 7b mono blocks, never clip on the 1812

Also that article on the Sunfire is fairly acourate IMHO, I have it also
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby converse320 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:40 am

I came across a post by Florian on another forum where he's praising the sound of the NAT monoblock tube amps with his Grands. Has anyone tried them with Scintillas I wonder?
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby JarreYuri on Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:41 pm

Ok, here is another addition to amps that can drive Scintillas.

Bob Carvers Sunfire 300.

Here is the thing.
The users manual clearly states under the headline (Continuous High Power Operation Below One Ohm), that the Sunfire 300 are fully capable of driving Scintillas after being modified by the Sunfire Corporation free of charge.
Now I have no clue what so ever if it has that modification.

Apart from that I actually hocked up the speakers with the amp and DAMN!!!! And Jesus Christ!!!
What a beast!!!
My GOD did it perform!!!
And what control of the bass membrane!
And the absolute effortless dynamics with scary detailing!!!
I am in HEAVEN!!!

As I mentioned I have NO clue what so ever if this amp got modified before but i measured and calculated that I was putting out 1200 watt peaks into 1 Ohm. And this was LOUD! And apart from being loud it was clear and dynamic.
The only reason I didn't push it further was that the light in the room was clearly flickering along with the peaks and I didn't want to blow the fuse in the small house I have my equipment in.

The "funny" (read scary) thing was that I started to note a smell like some kind of wood on fire.... was some cabling inside the wall starting to give in???
Anyway I turned down the volume and touched the amp to check the temp. It was just barely warm.
The smell eventually went away.
I think I will be installing a separate power line from the fuse box. :roll: 8-)

For now, I don't feel the need of any modification.

So anyway, I am extremely pleased with the performance and the overall sound of the amp!

Talk about MIND BLOWING experience! :shock: :D
And what explicit sound these Scintillas can deliver! 8-)

Cheers from Sweden!

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Al^ on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:43 am

Those Sunfire 300's and 600's are about the nicest sounding SS amps Carver ever made.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Groove-T on Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:01 pm

Last week i heard the AVM MA 8.2 Monos on fresh made Scinnies.

They took the load without any sign of sweat.
For the Sound i would say they do their job veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery well.
Simply very naturally and effortless, a real deeeeeeeep soundstage.
I found nothing for critic.

Very well made construction in every aspect.
The earth is planar, we don't live in a box. :D
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby randerson3024 on Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:04 pm

Thanks for accepting me into the group. I am looking to buy my first set of Apogees this year.

I recently upgraded from Krell FPB 350mcx's to Pass XA 100.5's, which drive my Magnepan 20.1's and Tympani 4's effortlessly. Will these amps drive the more difficult Apogee loads? The Apogees I buy will be subjective to what is available. I would like Diva's, but will also look at the Full Range, Scintilla, and Duetta depending on condition, price, etc.

Thanks,

Bob
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Graz on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:45 pm

You are welcome Bob!

That amp is lovely, and will run Duetta Signatures and new Duetta Advance 7's with no problem. Scintillas require more power, Divas also require more but adding a second one of these amps or a bigger brother on the bass may be a good idea. Nelson also makes an excellent crossover that can work well with the Divas...

Magnepan 20's are nice speakers, though I am biassed and tend to prefer the Apogee Duettas over them, and of course Divas, FR, etc.

Between the Installers most Apogee's are available, restored to better than new with our cnc engineered parts. These classic speakers all represent amazing value and all will compete well above their class generally to 3x what you need to invest in them against most "high end". Price depends on the level of upgrad put into the restoration, and shipping would also be a factor. What area is the system to be based in? Budget? It might be better to email me these details directly - and I can consider and advise...

Take care - Graz
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby darkmatter on Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:30 pm

I have been thinking about Krell amps that could drive the Scintilla.

I am limiting this to Krell amps at the moment as that is the subject of my interest and research.
There are plenty of others that can like the Lamm 1.1 / 1.2 some big Musical Fidelity amps etc...

I blame Covid-19 causing this related boredom driving my brain and curiosity to dig up old and unresolved questions. This came out of reminiscing about the absolute Sounds system I heard at Penta 1987 HiFi show here in the UK where Krell KRS-200 / Krell 6 pack Pre was driving a pair of Apogee Diva loudspeakers, I went on to talking about amps that could drive the 1 ohm Scintilla. From my research the KRS-200 seems like one of the most load tolerant amps of all time.

My list of Scintilla driving Krell amps

Originals, fan cooled KSA50 KSA100, KMA100, KMA200

mid 80s Big fins KSA80, KMA160, KSA200, KMA400

Reference KRS100 and KRS-200

later gen amps KSA150, KSA250 MDA Monos not sure but should

Plateau biased amps S and FBP series, not sure of their load tolerance into 1.0 ohm load and lower?

later gen amps, Evolution One had a stiff PS not sure about the EVO amps 302 / 402 the 400, 600 & 900 mono amps?

S550i integrated is very load tolerant and probably can according to the review Ken Kessler published in HiFi News / RR here https://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/2013_07_Krell_S550i_HFN.pdf
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby darkmatter on Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:51 pm

Does anyone here know if the more recent Krell Evolution series amps can drive the Scintilla in its 1 ohm setting?

The EVO amp models I am interested in are the 402 stereo and the 600 & 900 mono amps?
Thanks

Simon
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Zardoz on Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:54 pm

I've used a wide range of those amps with my Duetta's and Diva's, which I know don't go quite as low, with no problem. My guess, and it is of course a guess, is that they would hold up pretty well with your Scintilla's.
Good listening, I don't know about the Evo series though.
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not screaming in terror like his passengers..."
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby darkmatter on Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:34 am

Backtracking slightly The KSA-300s with its 5Kva PS seems capable of driving a 1 ohm load?
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