Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

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Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Graz on Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:57 pm

Those that played, and kept their smoke inside :D

Apogee under Spiegel/Bloom/Schuman and later under a/d/s never made their own amplifier. I have the same policy, preferring to leave the amplifier making to those who really understand it. With the mad Scintillas few amps back in the day really made the grade, able to reliably be ran day in day out holding the nightmare load and low efficiency. But even back in the 1980's there were a few, and now modern amplifiers are being released that are capable. So tell us about the ones you have encountered!

First hand experience of ongoing success at realistic levels, in use with the Scary Scintilla 1 ohm. By this I mean amps that have the proven credentials to run those ozone-unfriendly inefficient and spiteful beasts from the past to their full capability - and give long-term reliable service! Any contenders wanna play? play?
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:14 pm

hi folks

what i used successfully with just one amp are:

- my completely revised, overhauled and modded workhorse krell ksa 100 mk2

- my very smooth sounding bought new musical fidelity KW750

i also own two sphinx project 14 amps that i successfully used in biamping mode.

does anyone have experience with an conrad johnson evo2000 amp on the scinnies? i could maybe buy one...


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Phisci on Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:10 am

Krell KSA80; I'm using one per channel; on each channel, left output is used for bass panel while right output is used for tw/mr. Music!!
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby converse320 on Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:45 pm

Rowland 7s. They don't blow up and are safe in my experience, but Krell a better choice in the manufacturers opinion.

Pass 600 - I heard these in my system and was very envious. I think these would be a really good choice and I'll be looking out for some as soon as I get my system up and going again.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Allen Wright on Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:38 pm

Our dpa150tube monoblocks were designed from the ground upm to drive 1 ohm Scinnies, and they do with aplomb.

They can be set up with a dedicated one ohm output wiring that perfectly matches the Scintilla, and if you prefer another choice, can be rewired to also perfectly match 2, 4 or 8 ohm speakers.

150 tube watts into any of these impedances will be more than enough for any domestic situation, and any speaker. IME.

Regards, Allen (Vacuum State GmbH)
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:12 am

hi folks

i don't know if my question above was overseen or noone knows. so i ask the question again:

does anyone have experience (or has heard of) with an conrad johnson evo2000 amp on the scinnies? i could maybe buy one...


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Bonne on Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:32 pm

christoph wrote:hi folks

i don't know if my question above was overseen or noone knows. so i ask the question again:

does anyone have experience (or has heard of) with an conrad johnson evo2000 amp on the scinnies? i could maybe buy one...


cheers, christoph

Hi Christoph,

I saw this topic where is mentioned that Baranyi's scitillas were driven by this amp. A post by cjfrbw.
Link: http://www.audioworld.com/sw/Forum1/HTML/006546.html
On Topic: My old, not revised, Ksa100MK2 does the job also. ;)
Apogee Scintilla, Krell KSA250+KRC3, Sphinx Project 14 (2x), Krell Evolution 505.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby msm_1 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:22 am

Hi

Classe DR-8's can easily run them and can be bought for less then $1,000.00us if found, or the DR-9.

I'm not sure on my Spectrals, but they sound great on my Duettas and hopefully will try them on the Studio Grands this summer ( the Spectral DMA200 runs full CLASS A 200@8ohm/channel but a lower 32amps of current but suck up 1200 watts @ idle )

Thanks

Mike
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:48 pm

hi bonne

Bonne wrote:
I saw this topic where is mentioned that Baranyi's scitillas were driven by this amp. A post by cjfrbw.
Link: http://www.audioworld.com/sw/Forum1/HTML/006546.html
On Topic: My old, not revised, Ksa100MK2 does the job also. ;)


thank you very much for the link. i even made one posting myself in this thread :lol:

after all, it looks like the cj 2000evo can be made scintillable by just swapping the fuse. it's time to contact bill thalmann for the right value of the fuse and to ask if there are some more rewarding mods...


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby narkotic on Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:51 pm

I run both channels in stereo off of one Plinius SA-250 MKIV. It has no issues getting REAL loud either.

It runs warm to the touch in A/AB mode, and can fry hotdogs on it in A mode. The only time it shuts down in A mode is when I trip my circuit breaker from drawing too much current. A real beast.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:50 pm

i wrote an email to the cj service to ask if the cj 2000evo is up to the task to drive the scinnies and this ist the answer i got:

"As it happens, I do remember the Apogee Scintilla from my retail life, and vividly recall how demanding they were on speakers. I must tell you that the EV2000 would not be equal to the challenge of driving them. "

now i'm confused... :?

i think i will have to contact bill thalmann as well. does anyone have an email adress from him? or a link to his shop?

cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby geddie on Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:17 pm

Christoph,

Bill Thalmann info from Graz's website:

Bill Thalmann
MUSIC TECHNOLOGY, INC.
5418 Port Royal Road
Springfield, VA 22151

Tel: 703-764-7005 Fax: 703-764-0079

http://www.musictechnology.com
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:24 am

hi prentice

thank you very much for your appreciated help.

i will contact bill today...


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:14 am

hi all

i had very nice email contact with bill thalman and the bottom line is that the stock evo2000 is NOT able to drive the scinnies properly. even with different fuses it's not capable :(

bill said maybe in biamping configuration it could go... :?


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby diva on Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:28 pm

msm_1 wrote:Hi

Classe DR-8's can easily run them and can be bought for less then $1,000.00us if found, or the DR-9.

I'm not sure on my Spectrals, but they sound great on my Duettas and hopefully will try them on the Studio Grands this summer ( the Spectral DMA200 runs full CLASS A 200@8ohm/channel but a lower 32amps of current but suck up 1200 watts @ idle )

Thanks

Mike


hi Mike
i must tell you you are wrong in saying dr-8 or dr-9 can drive scintilla.
I have heard demo by Jason Bloom using a pair of diva and a dax with 4 dr-9 bridge to mono. For my ears it had wonderfull mid/hi but the base was shy and not so tight. Jason agreed to that .Dr-8 are having less current.
AND DRIVING THE DIVA IS NOT THE TASK REPRESENTED BY DRIVING THE SCINTILLA.
Classe dr-3vhc can do
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Rube on Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:02 pm

narkotic wrote:I run both channels in stereo off of one Plinius SA-250 MKIV. It has no issues getting REAL loud either.

It runs warm to the touch in A/AB mode, and can fry hotdogs on it in A mode. The only time it shuts down in A mode is when I trip my circuit breaker from drawing too much current. A real beast.


Pete, that sounds like my kind of amp! :)

Too bad they are so expensive and rare!

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Chan on Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:14 am

Now THESE babies drive my scintilla musically and effortlessly :mrgreen:

Image


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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby dasign on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:53 am

diva wrote:
msm_1 wrote:Hi

Classe DR-8's can easily run them and can be bought for less then $1,000.00us if found, or the DR-9.

I'm not sure on my Spectrals, but they sound great on my Duettas and hopefully will try them on the Studio Grands this summer ( the Spectral DMA200 runs full CLASS A 200@8ohm/channel but a lower 32amps of current but suck up 1200 watts @ idle )

Thanks

Mike


hi Mike
i must tell you you are wrong in saying dr-8 or dr-9 can drive scintilla.
I have heard demo by Jason Bloom using a pair of diva and a dax with 4 dr-9 bridge to mono. For my ears it had wonderfull mid/hi but the base was shy and not so tight. Jason agreed to that .Dr-8 are having less current.
AND DRIVING THE DIVA IS NOT THE TASK REPRESENTED BY DRIVING THE SCINTILLA.
Classe dr-3vhc can do
Diva


Diva, I have to agree with you on this one, my DR9 played well majority of time with my DS but unable to play synthesized low-bass at decent volume. Only my Krell FPB200 was up to the task.

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby danvers on Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:33 pm

Hello all , Can any one advise me of the best krells for apogee duetta .
has anyone heard fpb 250 ms or the new evo 302 Regards Hugh from www.danversthomas.com
[turn tables]
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby dasign on Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:32 pm

Hugh,

I have tested the Krell KSA 250 for a week a few years ago with great success on my DSig. These amps can be purchased used between $2K-$3K on Audiogon. At that time, I decided to go with a Classe DR9 which was near half the price of the Krell. I currently own a Krell FPB200 which is icredibly better than the DR9. The DR9 was lacking some power reserve on demanding bass music tracks and was clipping at a certain volume level making a freaky snap on the bass panel.

The FPB 200 is a stereo amp that will provide 200 W/8 Ohms, 400 W/4 Ohms or 800 W/2 Ohms. The FPB200 has never lacked any power or clipped during difficult music passages. I listen to a variety of rock genres, modern jazz and electronic music with a lot of bass content. The FPB provides a large soundstage, excellent dynamic rendition and tigth control on the DS bass panel.

The FPB 250M is a mono amp that will provide 250 W/8 Ohms, 500 W/4 Ohms or 1,000 W/2 Ohms derived from same technology as the FPB 200. I have never heard the FPB 250M, but I suspect that it should better the FPB200 on power reserve and overall dynamics. The best advice is to listen to any amp you're interested in, before purchasing. You will not go wrong with Krell. If I was in the market to purchase a Krell amp, I would look for the FPB regular or Cast series with the highest power rating you can afford. The Dsig love power...

Dasign
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:11 am

hi dasign and hugh

i hate to be the square guy but you are in the wrong thread. this thread is only about amps that can drive one ohm scintillas and no other apogees :oops:

this is the thread where you belong: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9

please don't take this the wrong way but we have a chance here to start new and this time clearly laid out so that one can find things in the right threads... :roll:


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby dasign on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:39 pm

Hi christoph,

Point well taken and you're absolutely right. I love my Dsig/Krell combo so much that I could'nt resist replying to Hugh.

Sorry! :oops:
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:05 am

hi dasign

dasign wrote:Point well taken and you're absolutely right. I love my Dsig/Krell combo so much that I could'nt resist replying to Hugh.

Sorry! :oops:


you don't have to apologize and especially not to me. i'm not the forum police but i thought we have a unique chance that this new forum can be handled at least a little more organized than the old one.
that was the only thing i hated about the old forum. the topic often changed several time within on thread and in combination with the really crappy search function this drove me nuts when trying to find info.
don't get me wrong. the detours mostly were/are absolutely interesting BUT why not open up a new thread with that new topic...?

and now i'm VERY off topic. sorry for that :oops:

cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby dimitri on Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:48 am

Chan wrote:Now THESE babies drive my scintilla musically and effortlessly :mrgreen:

Image


Chan


Hello Chan,

Do you actually have these Nuvista 300 amps driving your Scintillas?
I have also 2 sets driving my Divas and I am curious to know what rating is the AC line you have them connected to.



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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby Chan on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:47 pm

Hi Dimitri,

Sorry to disappoint you, nothing fancy really. I did replace the standard 16A power breaker with a 20A fuse since every time I switched the units on it would cause the breaker to switch off, leaving the living room in the dark. Freaked the wife out really :shock:
The fuse helped.

For now the Nuvista 300's are stored, replaced by Sphinx Project 16.

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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby tbjm04 on Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:49 am

I just acquired 1/4 ohm version of Scintilla. I have tried VTL Deluxe 300 monoblok (8 KT88 per channel) and Sony TA-N77 separately on a 4 ohm mode and they had no problem firing the Scinnies.

Now for the moment of truth, I changed the setting to 1 ohm. I have been reading numerous thread that Scinnies are not for tubes, so I took the risks and powered the Scinnies with my VTL. The VTL work just fine! I have used them for hours, with around 85 db at 2.5meters. It's not disco loud but that suits me just fine. I also do not notice that the volume needs to be significantly louder compared to in the 4 ohm setting. From here, I think my VTL is up to the tasks.

Since I have not tried any Class A amp (krell and the like) as a reference, I do not know whether the VTL has made the scinnies sound the way they should be. Any inputs or views on this? How do I know my amp has exploited all the potential of the Scinnies?

I have not tried to power the Scinnies with my Sony monster. I read someboy blew its sibling, TA-N1 when firing the Scinnies. May be someday I'll try it for fun when I get bored.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:42 am

hi tbjm04 (what a nice name :lol: )

do your vtl monos have different taps for different impedances? if yes, on which ohm setting did you hook up the scinnies in 1 ohm mode?

if the sound was loud enough for you and the bass was tight and clean and there is no hiss you should imho be fine with those amps driving the scinnies...

but you can always borrow one of the "approved" amps to compare with your tube monos.

does anyone in your area have such an amp to compare? i really like those shoot outs. they're real fun and you get to know other nice people 8-)

imho the scinnies and a tube amp (that is up to the task, like allens wonderful dpa150) make a match in heaven ;)


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby tbjm04 on Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:27 am

Hi Christoph,

Thanks for your reply. Yes I know your name is easier to remember than 'mine' :) Too much nicknames makes me difficult to remember them.

There is no alternative for the speaker tap on the VTL. I think it was set at 5 ohm. I have been reminded by my friends that the lack of power may break the aging scinnies or the amps itself. Now I 'm more confident that no damage occurs when connecting those two - whether I have fully explored the potential of the scinnies might be something else.

yes it would be good if I can get someone to test the 'approved' amps with my scinnies. Logistic is always a problem here - no amp is less than 50 kilos, and certainly I cannot afford moving my scinnies from my second floor home and transport them to a friend's home. It's too risky for me - the scinnies look fragile considering their weight. Well hopefully someday I can test krell and the like with my scinnies.

Have a good weekend.
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby christoph on Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:42 am

hi tbjm04

maybe it would help if you would let us know where you are located. there could be someone you don't know yet in your area having exactly such an amp to compare... :roll:

sure it's a hassle to unhook the amp and drive to someone but it really is fun and one can learn a lot by comparing gear directly and not from memory.

the dutch guy do such things quite a lot and there can really things be learnt ;) at least much more than by reading high end magazines or anonymous forums ;)

we (brad, tinytim, allen and me. even two dutch guys (kees and henk) joined us once) do that also from time to time and it's real fun everytime.


cheers, christoph
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Re: Amplifiers that CAN drive 1 ohm Scintillas

Postby SPSalerno on Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:36 pm

I can say very confidently that the DR-8 and the DR-9 amplifiers were NOT intended for use with 1-ohm Scintillas. You'd need a DR-3 or a DR-3b or a DR-3VHC for that. Last I looked there was a pair of restored DR-3VHC's on canuckaudiomart.
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