AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

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AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Graz on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:39 am

Just what it says! Amps that you have heard personally do a great job with the Apogee's.
:)
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Shibui on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:30 am

My 2 cents:

Bob Carver 240wpc KT88 monos - Lots of glorious tube power and detail and decay, and can drive Scinnies well. These are Carver 180 monos with bigger and better hand-wound trannies, putting out 240wpc and having 1 Ohm taps. Designed by Bob Carver to drive his Scintillas.
For my DSigs and Cephius 8s - Vincent monos for the MTRWs and Wyred4Sound SX500 for the panels. Lots of presence and deep wide soundstage.
For my Stages - Pass Aleph 3 is the best that I have heard.

Glen
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby sea-speak on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:19 pm

hey Glen,

I'm curious about your Carver monos -- do they use the 'vintage' transformers, or the new copies of those trannies that Bob is winding, or a third kind of transformer?

cheers,

Brandt
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby sea-speak on Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:22 pm

Back on topic, I'll add that TacT 2150s, with Jensen caps & air-core silver foil inductors in the output network, along with Equitech power conditioners and good shielded power cords can sound very good. I have three of them driving my Divas actively.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Shibui on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:39 pm

sea-speak wrote:hey Glen,

I'm curious about your Carver monos -- do they use the 'vintage' transformers, or the new copies of those trannies that Bob is winding, or a third kind of transformer?

cheers,

Brandt


Brandt,
I'll answer here, as I am still getting used to this new format and can't yet find how to email you offline privately: They have the new trannies that Bob himself is hand-winding, and put out an extra 60wpc at 8ohms.

O Bother! Just found the right button. Will use next time!
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Macstereo on Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:28 am

I think the answer is... any amp that sounds good to you and doesn't run out of power. I have had excellent results using McIntosh amps to drive both my Duetta II's and FR's.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Yipean on Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:03 am

When I had working FRs, I had good results with a Clayton amp - the M40 I think it was called (although there is a bit of mechanical transformer hum) and a Plinius SA100 amp - my two favorites...although the Krell KSA-50 was surprisingly nice as well. I liked the Wyred for Sound monoblocks on the bass panels as well. I'd love to hear what the Plinius SA-250 could do. Also intrigued by the new Pass Labs amps.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby geddie on Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:56 am

Most Llano amps can drive most Apogees. Each of the pair of Llano Phoenix 300 stereo amps I have can deliver 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms, and 600 watts per channel into 4 ohms. One of these amps will handle a pair of Duetta Sigs by itself with ease. (As will one of the Vincent Audio SP-331 amps I also have.) I can't say either the Llano or the Vincent Audio amps would handle Scintillas or Full Ranges by themselves, though. Perhaps if used in tandem with a stronger amp/amps handling the more difficult to drive bass panels or ribbons ....... :)
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby ulrich on Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:55 am

As long as my scintillas were 1-4Ohm Version in
1ohm mode, my Rowland Model 8 in biamping mode were happy with the load. After Rolfs great restauration impedance dropped to 0.7 Ohms (measured or estimated by Rolf?) and the Model 8 now lack some of the drama, power, weight and excitement they had before.
While I do NOT wish to give them away,
there are two amps I am interested in their capability to drive 1Ohm Scintillas:

Pass XA 600.5
Rowland Model 9 ti bps

Anyone heard them with (1ohm) Scintillas ?
Cheers, Ulrich
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby apogee_admin on Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:51 pm

ChrisH has the X600's (I think) and they worked very well on rebuilt 1 ohm Scinnies, got pretty hot though!

Jon
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Allen Wright on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:58 pm

The Vacuum State dpa150 was designed to be state of the art monoblock amp that can drive ANY speaker, and when set to the one ohm output, drives one ohm Scintillas wonderfully. And I suspect, the FR.

And with the outputs wired to 4 ohm matching, it will EASILY drive all other Apogees: Divas, Mini Grands, Duetta, Calipers and Stages.
It would also be perfect on the new Definitives and Synergy's.

Various Apogee fans have heard it driving Scintillas and Mini Grands last year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Both the ZAP and Hypex Class D amps, when powered with switching powersupplies, also drive one ohm Scintillas effortlessly, but are not within a 100 miles of the sound of the dpa150's.

Regards, Allen
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby ChrisH on Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:33 pm

Yes indeed I have Pass x600 monos driving my rebult 1 ohm Scintillas in the UK.

These are not the 600.5 versions, but I imagine there's not a great deal of difference. These huge Class A amps naturally get warm but seem well capable of doing the job. These can be picked up for ~£6k in the UK, and pairs do crop up occasionally.

I don't have a large room and don't play at very loud levels, but this set up is easily better than the Stage / Pass x350 or Duetta Sig / x600 set ups I had recently.

Funnily enough, it's on my Wilson 5.1s that the true brilliance of these amps is most apparent....

I still neet to find a replacement pre, as I'm using a 17 yr old (?) Krell 7sB, which is probably only ok...a valve pre has been suggested...

regards ChrisH
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Shibui on Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:45 pm

I have a pair of Pass XA-100.5s on the way to try out. Maybe the best of both worlds? I will post impressions later when my DSigs get back. Rich Murry swears by them, and the reviews are extraordinary :) .
Glen

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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Florent on Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:15 am

You have a complete list of owners with their choices ... more than 121.
http://azurprovence.free.fr/formulaire/formulaire.php
Hope it helps a lot.
See the section Reports for knowing amplifiers used.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby converse320 on Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:46 pm

Allen Wright wrote:
Both the ZAP and Hypex Class D amps, when powered with switching powersupplies, also drive one ohm Scintillas effortlessly, but are not within a 100 miles of the sound of the dpa150's.

Regards, Allen

Has anyone successfully used the Hypexes on Scintillas for a lengthy period? My UCD700s lasted about a year before frying themselves. I liked the sound of mine before they died, apart from their tendency to suddenly run out of steam at the bottom end at high volumes, followed by limp bass panels flapping in the breeze.

Why is the switch mode power supply important? Mine are being rebuilt with their original traditional super regulated power supply, but allegedly more robust modules.

I've also heard the Pass X600s on rebuilt Scintillas and I thought they were absolutely fabulous. It's probably the first time I've heard Scintillas being really well driven. I guess the sound would probably convince you to overlook their appearance eventually.

Just remembered I was going to send you some cable Jon - moving back to UK soon so no doubt it will appear in the move.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby dasign on Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:51 pm

Once I purchased my brand new pair of DS Signature in 1989, I tested my DS with a Krell KSA 250 (320 W/channel 8 Ohms load) with great success, but decided to purchase a Classe Audio DR-9 amp for budgetary concerns.

The DR-9 (100W/channel 8 Ohms load) was used in stereo mode. When a CD had a lot of synthesized bass, like PJ Harvey's 'Electric Light' on the 'Is this Desire?' CD, the DS was clipping and making a funny breakup sound. I tougth that the DS was causing the problem.

I recently purchased a Krell FPB 200 (200W/channel 8 Ohms load) which cured the problem. All those years I tougth that the DS was the culprit. Don't get me wrong, the DR-9 will work graciously 95% of the time, but when stressed with high level of bass content at a certain volume, this amp will go out of breath. I listen to a lot of progressive rock, Indie rock, jazz, world music, electronica, etc.

You need all the power (current) you can get with the Apogee DS. I would suggest any amp over 200W/channel in a 8 Ohms load that doubles its power when using a 4 Ohms load.

Dasign
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Tech1 on Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:49 pm

Hi All... Been using apogees for ever, used mini grands, duets, stages, and played for a while with Scintilas and perigees, now VERY privileged to own and run Graz Synergys... what more is there to say, they leave you speechless and they are easier to run than earlier models, BUT, don't be fooled quality amps required, no messing.
As you may have guessed by now readers that I have also played around with numerous amps and without question my favorites are the Jeff Roland and more recently the Classe Omega mono-blocks (reference units not the smaller ones) The JR model 5 can be had for very low money S/H if you can find one and its sweet relaxed sound compliments the speakers, not the last word in base grunt but there is enough for my taste as the control is good. As for the Classe; fall in love cause they just go on driving, never a moments fatigue or stress, i haven't been able to get them to clip (new Synergy). Both the amps need good power cords mainly limited by the current they pull from the wall.
Haven't been pushed to try any power regulators as I might be wrong but when the kit is designed correctly on a clean line in the house then anything else changes rather than improves the sound. Choose your pre amp and source carefully as the transparency will show all; warts and all.

I could go into all the normal stuff about transparency, beguiling vocals, sweet never ending hi frequency response, but why bother, go find some if you can and audition; they are staying in my system... period :!:

Look the dog bits too.
If you wanna know more just ask.
Other amps:
Mark levinson, various including 44's
Krell,
Beards
Roland
and a host of less capable toys.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby vlatkoc on Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:01 am

DYS Pass - Thagard A-75 .
Good and very good for stages.

Brgds

V.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Carlton on Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:43 pm

Digmoda 552. Reliably driving my Scintilla in full active tri-amp mode with no passive components. Purchased in May of 09 used daily and still going strong.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby JarreYuri on Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:59 am

Nelsson Pass Aleph 2 does it with no problem.
I had a pair of mono blocks 2 years ago and they played with great power and ease.
Single ended solid state! ;)

One other... and this may come to some surprise to some of You but I still carry my Technics SU-VX600.
This integrated amp can drive Apogees quite well. I don't think the 1 Ohm Scintilla though. ;)
They use some kind of circuitry akin to QUAD wheres they "adapt" to the resistance of the speakers and just rams out power until the caps are empty.
The sound is not as smooth as the Aleph 2 though.
But it drives the panels to the full until it drops to it's knees. And that with an audible cracking sound.
Even the lights in the house fluctuates due to the power needs. It would probably be better off with more caps to back up some power.

I will soon pick up an Adcom GFA 555 II as that amp can drive Aps to the fullest too but with more power than the earlier mentioned.

Cheers from Sweden!
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby dasign on Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:56 am

Just went through another audiophile crisis and replaced my Krell FPB200 by Krell FPB 350MCX monoblocks. My DS are really under control with these powerful babies. Bass is much firmer and extended. Mids and highs are more fluid and detailled than my former FPB200.

When playing electronica music with a lot of synthetized bass, it seems that the DS are 'breaking up' at a much higher volume level than they used to with previous Krell. I guess Apogees will eat any number of watts you throw at it!

Dasign
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Fred Donahue on Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:27 am

I came upon the Krell KMA-100 monoblocks when my Duetta Sigs were being restored and I have to say they blew away the Carver Silver Nine t monoblocks I had been using. I bought them from a former Apogee Acoustics salesperson who had them restored at Music Technology, Inc. where I had my Duetta Sigs restored. He told me that Apogee had used the Krell KMA-100s in testing the Duetta design. I've become a true believer after hearing them with the Duetta Sigs the past seven months.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby RuedigerC on Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:22 pm

Yamaha MX-D1. No problem with Scintilla 1 Ohm.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby buzato on Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:18 am

sea-speak wrote:Back on topic, I'll add that TacT 2150s, with Jensen caps & air-core silver foil inductors in the output network, along with Equitech power conditioners and good shielded power cords can sound very good. I have three of them driving my Divas actively.


Hello, do you think ,t han i can drive a pair of FR with thé same amplifier ?

for m'y Diva i have one, two, or tree pairs Of Mark Levinson. Ml2 perhaps good solution for FR too, just inquiet with FR réputation

havé a good day

Dominique
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby ericpeters on Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:12 pm

A couple of weeks ago I wanted to sell my 2nd pair of Apogees (on wall Auriga's) because they didn't work well in my HT setup. Due to lack of HDMI I did need a new HT receiver and I decided to go for one of the mainstream brands Pioneer, especially because they have Class D power sections in their more expensive models.

The 2 most expensive models have B&O Ice technology under the hood and the 3rd most expensive model uses a Class D module of which I do not know the make.
All modern HT receivers have some kind of automatic setup and room adjustment technology, the PIoneer models have a sophisticated version with phase measurement and correction, standing wave reduction, time delay corrections and all of this with multi point measuring. It would not surprise me if this technology is comparable with the once famous Tact/Lingdorf RCS technology.

Anyway the result is that I decided to keep my Auriga's because this receiver really makes the Auriga sound very well, even better than when I run them with my Mono's. Now you have to keep in mind that I'm not talking about the quality you expect from a $50.000 high end stereo.

So for people on a budget and using hybrid Apogees (the power supply is simply not big enough to get a ribbon bass panel under control) I recommend to try one of these Class-D receivers, the result might be better than you expect.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Vansloneker on Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:55 am

That's cool Eric. Any pictures?
poor guy
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby JarreYuri on Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:08 pm

Now I have a Adcom GFA 5500 that I find quite pleasing actually.
It's good for 2x200W and can drive low impedance speakers like the Apogee's with ease.

Soon I will also have a Nacamichi PA7E Stasis also good for 2x200W.

It will be fun to compare these two and probably will bi-amp.

Nice what one can trade using contacts. 8-)
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Lars on Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:31 pm

My Stages have been fed with energy from a Lyngdorf TDAI2200/RP amplifier for two months now and they have entered a new era.

I'd say that the TDAI2200 can drive the Stages well - my experience is that if a recording is lean, the sound is lean (no big surprise..). If the recording is done well the Stages just change character and plays rich sound with good weight and a surprisingly solid, fast and dry bass response. One of the areas where the RP is very efficient is to tighten up the bass without loosing weight .. at first it sounds leaner, but then you realise it's just more right.

/Lars
Apogee Stage - silver cheeks w/original stands
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby Duetta86 on Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:41 pm

I use a Bedini 150/150 MKII. I had the amp refurbished in 2004. It came back sounding lush, detailed, very class "A" sounding. It drove the Duettas with no problem at all. With the hybrids (Duetta MR/T/midbass/bass cone unit) it's still a jaw dropper.
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Re: AMPLIFIERS THAT CAN DRIVE APOGEES! Firsthand experience!

Postby User211 on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:16 pm

The 211 monos in the User Systems section under my username.

I've had Rowland 301 monos, Lyndorf, Denon 1100 Watt into 1Ohm monos, Wyred-4-Sound monos, Behringer A500, Luxman L-435, Graaf 5050s (failed totally), Yamaha, Rowan and some others plugged into my Duetta Sigs and I like the 211s best.

The Rowland's and the Lyngorf were both pretty good, however. And the Rowans are nice too.
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