Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

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Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:32 pm

Hello all, I'm glad to make it back to this site as I've been out of the computer scene awhile but I have a serious question and only experienced Apogee users can help. After a happy few years with my first purchase of Apogees a la Mini Grands ( in an apartment), I moved to a single family home and upgraded to Duetta Sigs. After a few years with them stock I sent them to Rich @TSW and had them fully upgraded...including new Graz drivers, completely upgraded crossovers, stiffened frame, new socks, paint, etcetera and they came out so great I swore I would never even think of replacing them forever. I loved them when they were stock but the improvement afterwards was absolutely profound: deeper tighter bass, extended top, clean but ever so natural detail, open, 3D, wide stage and an absolutely uncanny cohesiveness. I am in heaven.
I was very fortunate and actually spent almost two years to do it (99% by myself) but I actually built my lifelong dream of building a dedicated listening room. Dedicated lines, double and triple layers of sheetrock/quietrock and an extensive assortment of room treatments as needed without concern to any Wife Acceptance Factor. The Duettas fit the room perfectly. Perfectly.
Room dimensions are 13' wide x 17'9" long x 7' sidewalls that peak to a 9' high centerline.
The back of Duettas are 52" from front wall, they are approximately 9' from my chair and there's about 3'-3'6" to the wall behind my head. Speakers are 7' apart from inside edge to edge and about 8" from sidewalls. Imaging is absolutely "spot on". Incredibly focused center image, deep, wide stage, and absolutely believable images. Wall behind speakers are clear directly behind them but I swear by the 2@ 11"ASC round tube traps in either corner as well as the single 22" ASC trap dead center between them (all three are against the wall). As I said, I have a variety of other treatments in the room but almost all are DIFFUSORS, NOT absorbers...except for the wall behind my listening chair which is a combination of both.
Electronics are all tube based and are essentially as capable as almost any solid state based amps...
I use TRL (Tube Research Labs) "The Dude" pre-amp , TRL GT 200 mono blocs (utilizing KT-150's at well over 200WPC in pure TRIODE mode), and Lampizator sourced digital (Model "Big 6" Dac) and transport... above electronics all have upgraded Duelund Cast Copper caps exclusively...
One more time: the Duettas sound stunning.
Fast forward: I know there are trade-offs in everything but will Diva Ultimates work in my room? (Be kind please, I already bought them and waiting for shipping, but also be truthful) What will I be gaining and how much will I be losing when these replace the Duettas? Besides all the benefits mentioned above about how perfect the Duettas are, the most profound is the amazing cohesiveness... Will I be experimenting with placement for months until I finally find one that duplicates (or even exceeds what the Duettas are doing") or will I never again enjoy that natural, easy, beguiling sense of "One-ness" that they effortlessly deliver?
If necessary I can purchase more bass absorption, perhaps for behind the listening chair...
I'm expecting benefits, of course...but are there big costs? I'm planning to begin with putting the Divas exactly where the Duettas are...7' apart which will make sidewall distance closer to a mere 5"...
Please be honest... and thank you all in advance.
Happy Lissn'n
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Al^ on Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:01 pm

Boy that's a touchy question!!! I've been playing with my Diva's for a while now, as for room sizes, 1 is 35' x80'x 12'3". The Diva's didn't fare to well in that room, which my Acoustat 2+2's work the best in. Moved them into a 15'x23'x10'3" room and things sounded better but seemed congested. I just moved them again into a 25'x34'x10'3', I have them 9' off the front wall and 4' off the side walls. Best sound I have ever heard from them, it's almost like their built for that volume, I've never heard an Apogee with the deep bass that their capable of. It literally fills that room. I have Duetta Sigs and Scintilla's as well. I can tell you through experence that the size of room can make or break the performance of overall output and sound quality. I have no added acoustical measures, not sure I'd want to, They sound pretty dam good as they are. If they have room to breathe, you won't need a sub. :) :) That's my 2 cents worth and just my opinion. Wish you all the best setting them up.
Al
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:22 am

Hi Al, thanks for the quick reply...I am in full agreement that the room is the key factor with most speakers but all the more critical with Apogees, for sure. Hence my concern. You sound like you have an outright haven for Apogees with those room sizes and the fact that your "middle sized" room still didn't fare well is disconcerting. I should probably clarify my biggest concern which is not whether the Divas can reach their full potential overall,[ and especially regarding the bass...] as I'm sure they will certainly NOT but I'm just hoping they can sound at least AS good and [hopefully] somewhat better in some regards...
For example, the coherency factor is HUGE...I can't imagine it could improve but being AS good would be tremendous. Other factors: will the midrange purity of that dedicated driver be a noticeable improvement over the Duetta and is that true tweeter ribbon also going to give me more top end extension? As for bass...I simply don't want "Lumpy"or "Boomy" or "Sluggish" or "Dull" or anything else negative... I'd be satisfied if it didn't change much at all...though "tighter" wouldn't be so bad... I have sub's to spare which I use very 'sparingly'. Subs include a REL Stadium 2 which is set barely much above 20hz and with very little gain just to solidify the room presence/imaging 'body' in the recordings and I have a pair of BGX -S12B's (with their own dedicated BGX-A2 600wpc ss amps)
http://hifidelitystore.com/product_info ... s_id=12578
http://hifidelitystore.com/product_info ... s_id=12580
that handle from there, up to where the Duettas start to drop off...
So these are all available to help smooth out room modes possibly introduced by the new Diva woofers...
Not to mention [again] a carefully placed array of [some] absorption and quite a bit of diffusion...
I guess it's a pretty big crap shoot that may likely / obviously?! need a lot of patience .
Thanks again for your input.
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Al^ on Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:25 am

The one thing I really want you to listen for is the intergration between the bass panel and the midrange ribbon, especcially when listening to women with large vocal ranges and dynamic voice. As I understand the xo freq is 550hz according to hard paper, The Dax is preset, but does allow quite a bit of adjustment for eq, ALSO make sure the Dax is set properlly for the associated equip pre and post, when I got mine it was all wrong and created nightmares for me. The Dax is a better option than the passive, NOT saying the passive is bad by any means. Maybe with some critical listening and comparisons, solutions may be obtainable. I don't want to dig to deep into this at this point. As far as the tweeter ribbon goes, couldn't wish for better. Again my 2cents as all things very!
Al
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:07 am

OK Al, The bass and midrange integration IS probably the most critical link... and I'm sure it will be fairly obvious if there's an inconsistency to it. What I'm encouraged about, and why I'm even undertaking such a project IS that they are the Ultimates and I know Rich has put a lot of R&D into improving the original strengths and considerably ameliorating the original weaknesses...That said, his rebuilds, including these, are done via his passive component upgrades only...NO electronic Dax (in fact I actually had a fully upgraded Dax 1 which I recently sold simply because I'm back to the passives now with first his D.Sigs, and now these).
So, I won't have the Dax flexibility but on the other hand WILL have the absolute purity of the simpler passive components. Yes, I know, its been an age old argument between those 2 camps (Dax vs passive) and as I said I was a true Dax user/believer and still feel very strongly about its benefits but there's something about one massive and capable amp (bi-wired of course) and the lack of additional electronics that make a strong argument too.
Bottom line is that I have always known that a stock Diva really should not have a place in my room [of such dimensions] and thus the upgraded Duettas BUT the Ultimates are a seriously "cleaned-up/refined" edition so to speak. I also trust Rich's talents and [hopefully] MY experience, patience, and "Room-tuning" bag of tricks to try and squeeze whatever improvements the Ultimates WOULD have under ideal room dimensions... into what I have to work with. I just hope I'm not LOSING much, if anything.
But I also have to be blunt about it and realize, all things considered...it's a lot like I said earlier, 'a crap shoot", though maybe if I'm fortunate, I'll have Lady Luck blowing on the dice for me.
We'll see.
With fingers crossed...Happy Lissn'n.
PS: Further comments welcome but please be honest! Thanks.
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Al^ on Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:57 am

The passives are bi-ampable or biwire capable. I tried both configurations, my Diva passive network boxes are stock I think, no upgrades, on that note I prefered the Dax and It's Diva network boxes. Thats just how it worked out here. Good luck, trial and error is the only way to success.
Al
PS: A while back BrianBeck done one heck of a good write up on the Diva xo's.
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Vansloneker on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:46 am

There's been many talk of the pros and cons of various Apogees vs each other and when you have both restored Duettas and Divas you just try them both in the room and here's your chance to add your well-founded opinion.
poor guy
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Zardoz on Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:27 pm

Hi Lissnr,

I had Duetta Sigs with Graz ribbons and replaced them with a pair of Diva's. My room is 15x20x8 and I have 20" ASC tube traps in the corners and 11" traps in the center between them. I also have some treatments on the side walls behind and in front of the speakers. What's behind is mainly to cover windows and thin closet doors, and what's in front is to control first reflections. As far as my results in the room, I wish I could put them slightly farther apart, but otherwise it works. This link has a picture or two of my room with the Diva's. http://forums.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.p ... 1194895289
The first thing I did with my Diva's was to upgrade the parts in the crossovers. HUGE HUGE HUGE improvement over the stock crossovers. Then I had the ribbons replaced with Graz ribbons. They are a big step up from the Duetta Sig's that I used to have. Your room might be a bit small for the Diva's, but with room treatment they may just work. I don't think mine would work in my room without the room treatment, and I would still like to be able to get them a few more inches apart.
You might want to experiment with them on your long wall, instead of the typical setup of them on the short wall. this may allow you to place them farther apart for a better sound stage and less congestion.
As always, you have to experiment, but my first impression would be that the room is too narrow but with room treatment, you may get them to work fine.
Just my 2 cents, and I hope it works out for you.
Z
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not screaming in terror like his passengers..."
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:52 pm

Hello Zardoz, Thank you for the optimistic outlook, I am keeping an upbeat attitude and I certainly appreciate your input. Your room is stunning and the Divas look gorgeous! I happen to LOVE your listening chair as well. Yes, 15' wide is 2 huge feet bigger than mine and I bet it really helps open them up but from what I hear and read 7' is considered excellent spacing for the Divas (which I will have with just 5"-6" to sidewalls) but I'm suspecting I can make that work, give or take a few left/right as needed.
So,you are another believer in ASC tube traps, join the club. Pricey and a bit bulky but well worth it.
I'm set up for short wall now and hope it will work but if drastic measures become neded, long wall could be another option. I'll keep it all in mind and thank you very much for your helpful support.
Best regards, Lissnr
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Zardoz on Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:34 pm

Yes, I think the tube traps are one reason I can make the Diva's work in my room. I found that I could not place mine any closer than about 18" to the side walls without the sound becoming extremely muddy, so you may have to do some serious damping on the side walls in the first reflection area especially. Best of luck and let us know how it works out.
Z
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like his passengers..."
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:49 pm

"Muddy" is a scary word...
I have found first reflection points much less of a concern with my Apogees obviously as compared to some of my older dynamic driver based systems. I will nevertheless keep at least a couple of standard 2' x 4' bass absorbers avail for experimenting if I suffer the same symptoms. Honestly I was pleasantly surprised that even with only 8" to the sidewalls as currently configured with the D Sigs, there was quite a tight bass range... I'll find out soon enough although today's winter storm has caused delay in new speaker shipment... Iwill keep posting and appreciate all inputs. Best regards
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby RuedigerC on Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:51 pm

Hi Lissnr,
please do not forget to post some pictures!
;) Thanks!
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:11 am

Hello All, Just a quick update: Winter weather AND my work schedule has put a damper on the shipping dates so I must be patient. I'm hoping it will all [safely] be completed in a few more weeks. I will update and try some pictures after my [much anticipated] set-up and let you know how it's working. Thanks for all your support and interest!
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:04 pm

O.K.Guys: They're here! My True Sound Works' Diva Ultimates arrived a few days ago and are now standing where the Duetta Signatures were (just as a starting point).
First impressions are : they are beautiful (Rich did a great job on the paint) and they are built like a true 'tour de force' in speaker manufacturing...
and they are also quite big, period. (And for the room too!) Oh well? Not surprising as I sort of figured as much...and the look will grow on ME, but first impressions are consistently: "Holy Cow!!!"
The big question I/we have all been pondering: "Can I get them to perform better than the Duettas IN MY ROOM"?
So far: after a quick initial positioning they exhibit obvious potential in their frequency extremes...bass is not "Boomy" per se but I need to shuffle them all around to compare the bass characteristics everywhere... I can also sense a taller stage which is obviously not surprising...
The first thing I really need to do though is to start removing several acoustic treatments (mostly diffusors) that the Duettas seemed to work well with but the Divas seem to be saying "NO" to...
I'll be busy and update when noteworthy...
Wish me luck!
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Zardoz on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:15 pm

Best of luck and be sure to let us know how it progresses. Starting with a bare room and then adding back what you need is probably a good way to go. You may fine that you need things in different locations anyway.

Z
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like his passengers..."
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:48 pm

Hello and thanks for the quick reply... I agree that stripping all treatments then adding back is the ideal way to do it but I'm sure you'll forgive me as it's obviously easier to keep removing until it stops improving should also work ( i have quite a few treatments). So far i have removed quite a bit and the sound is finally becoming more open. I am also concentrating on the bass and recently read that acoustically speaking i should have the least room node interaction at the 25% and 75% positions so i placed the Divas at exactly 25% into the rm and placed my chair at approx 75% then ran a lot of bass tracks.... Results seem to be a better even- ness of bass response... At least to my ears. I have to run test tones and spl meter later to confirm but that's what it seems to my ears. Good news.
Also played with speaker sidewall distance and spacing from inside edges of each spkr to each other.... It had been disappointingly diffuse before and simply a few more inches together has now snapped center image ... This puts them just a hair shy of 6'8" apart inside edge to edge and about 8" from sidewalls.
Removed 2@ diffusors from front wall ( they were just L & R of centerline... Not directly behind drivers) and that also took some congestion out.
I still have 11" full round ASC tube traps in corners behind spkrs that I don't want to move if possible as they are absolutely adding to imaging and focus so they continue as is for the moment.... But there's still more to work with.
My confidence in getting them to "fit" has improved greatly! I'll keep all updated. Thanks for your help!
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby apogee_admin on Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:36 pm

It's not an exact science but having the speakers around 1/5 of the distance from the back wall works in stopping major bass nodes.

Also quoting the designer Leo Spiegel:
The reader should be aware that any full-range dipole with produce bass cancellation that varies in frequency according to the room and the distance from the rear wall. According to the designer, Leo Spiegel, the Apogee Divas are mechanically tuned in the low - frequency region to provide significant output below 25 Hz. This is accomplishes by mechanically tensioning the woofer ribbon across its geometry. This produces a relatively low "Q". About 50 percent of the output of the speaker is radiated to the rear, however, and the proper balance of energy can only be preserved if the speaker is at least 36-48" from the rear wall and no more than 60". A displacement of three feet from the rear wall will produce cancellation in the area from 70-95 Hz, a four - foot displacement will produce cancellation In the 55 to 70Hz band, and a five - foot displacement will produce cancellation in the 47 to 56Hz band. This means that considerable experimentation in room placement will be needed to get the best overall performance in a given system, but that the user can also do a great deal to compensate for room effects with relatively limited speakers movements.

Have you played around with the toe-in amount, don't think you mentioned it?

Jon
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:30 pm

I have used up to 3/8 toe in but find i prefer none as i am now. Thank you for the very informative info!
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:36 pm

Just an update: I sent the Diva Ultimate crossovers back to TSW for modifications to better "co-exist" and play to their best potential in my somewhat smaller -than -ideal room. They arrive back to me in a couple of days...break in will be necessary again as they had most of their "innards" replaced. Will report back after my renewed listening tests. I'm crossing my fingers...and being optimistic!
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:52 am

Hello All! Its been over a year and a half but I {finally} wanted to put an end to my story...
The saga of Divas vs Duetta Sigs in my rather modest room is over. I tried. I truly did. I gave it over a year of almost every trick I could think of...Modifying the Diva crossovers; more, then less room treatments; multiple different room placements; even power cords and different tubes in my amps and pre-amp...
Finally: I had the Divas sounding "Pretty Good" but they still were obviously NOT reaching their true potential and my memories of the Duettas were simply better.One pair simply fit the room and the others were simply too large for the space. I admit I did not want to concede but I can honestly say I gave it my all...I just could not get the Divas to sing with the voice I knew they had in them.
Result? I reluctantly...very reluctantly, sold the tall, lean, stunning beauties and went back to Duettas. This time though they were not just immaculately prepared True Sound Works Apogee Duetta Signatures as before... I decided that since these were indeed the models that truly 'fit' my designated sound room the best... and that my devotion to the brand wasn't destined to falter anytime I could possibly imagine...then the best replacements would in fact be the BEST Duetta Signatures I knew existed: Rich Murry's True Sound Works' Duetta ULTIMATES... which is exactly what I did.
...And in a word: Glorious! in every way...I could not be happier. Everything the earlier Duettas did was there, and more. Simply stunning and of course, a perfect fit for the room.
Lots more to talk about of course but I just wanted to put a 'period' on the end of my Diva adventure. Thank's for everyone's help and advice. And Happy Lissn'n.
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Zardoz on Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Sorry it didn't work out, but I was afraid your room would be too narrow to work their best. Good news is the Duetta's seem to work and sound great in your room, so overall a happy ending. :D Enjoy your new Duetta's and happy holidays.

Z
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not screaming in terror like his passengers..."
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:56 pm

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, a happy ending (after a slightly re-routed trail!).
Happy Holidays and a great New Year for you too. :D
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby dasign on Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:07 pm

Hi Lissnr,

I also have a pair of Duetta Sig refurbished by TSW and they just sound fantastic. I have paid attention to my room's acoustic treatment using diffusors in the back of my DS and using Synergitic Research HFT and FEQ room treatment devices. I also rebuilt my Xovers using latest audiophile grade caps (Mundorf Supremes), Duelund resistors and pure copper foil inductors. Rebuilding the Xovers was a game changer.

Over the years I wanted to have a pair of refurbished Divas in my listening room to replace the DS. My listening room is basically the same size as yours to the exception that mine is only 11' wide. What a mistake that would have been if I decided to go forward with this project. I feel really sorry that this did not work out for you and thank you for sharing your story with Apogee members.

Happy Holidays
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:13 am

Hello Dasign, Glad to hear you're enjoying your Duetta Signatures...Rich makes fantastic Apogees. When you do the upgraded crossovers yourself I'm sure there is a great satisfaction in hearing the fruits of your efforts. I am also a fan of the Synergistic Research products in general and have heard the HFT and FEQ room treatment devices demonstrated. Very impressive.
If your room dimensions are indeed similar to mine then I'm glad I saved you the bumpy winding road scratching the "Diva Itch" only to realize that it was one big curvy circle that brings you back to the D.Sigs again. I guess you could say that's a definite "Perk" to reading these forums, yes?
I really appreciated all the support and advice I received here and will keep connected with more ongoing discussions...After all, once you've been hooked on Apogees...how can you go back to anything else?
Happy Lissn'n
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby dasign on Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:29 pm

Hi Lissnr,

The Xover upgrade was an ear opener for sure. I have also stabilize my DS by using especially designed Mye stands and purchased vibration control devices manufactured by Steve Blinn to replace Mye stands brass cone feets. These DS are now rockers with tight solid and focused bass.

I would have been so happy if the Diva would have worked in your room. I agree that we benefit all from the forum user experiences' good or bad.

Happy New Year to all members.
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Re: Help! Replacing D Sigs With Divas BUT...

Postby Lissnr on Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:05 am

Hello Dasign, The crossovers are a well documented area where significant improvement is so easily heard. There are probably hundreds of threads in the old AP forum discussing exactly that. Glad yours was such a success too.

As for the Mye speaker stands and the amazing bass that can come out of Duetta Sigs. I'm tempted to say "Great minds think alike" but I'll hold off for now. I had often visited Grant Mye's speaker stand site and I was always impressed with the significant positive feedback his customers gave back about how improved their Maggies sounded with the new stands...especially in the BASS department. It's certainly understandable as the Maggies have significantly more fore/aft flex than the stock Apogee stands, not to mention the overall weight/stiffness built into the Apogees being dramatically more "Beefy".
However, Mye does make one pair of speaker stands for Apogees also and lo and behold it IS for our Duetta Sigs!

So I mentioned to Rich Murry as he was building my Ultimates whether he thought the Mye stands would be a good idea or not... He mentioned the speakers are already pretty stiff in stock form but that he also infuses tremendous extra stiffening into his rebuilds so that it really shouldn't be necessary at all, but... that if I insisted he couldn't see any harm in adding them. With that I contacted Grant Mye and had a set built and shipped directly to Rich as he was finishing up my speakers where he then ensured the match up was flawless. (Rich also graciously did some paint work on the stands to help better match the scheme in my new speakers). From there the entire combination of speakers and stands were sent to me knowing there would be a perfect fit and no surprises were in store.

I use the tall spikes from Mye stands and they seem quite good. I also added solid maple strips of two and three quarter inch thick by approximately 4" wide under them first for a total height of just under 6" to the bottom of the speaker. I had read on various posts years before about whether raising the DS's would be beneficial overall and, if so, how high...I remember 8" was a popular choice but didn't want to go quite that much. Replacing the Mye tall spikes with another version, as you did with the Steve Blinn's, may be in store some day but I don't feel a serious need at the moment. I happen to be fond of the "Star Sound / Sistrum" platforms and variety of spikes and footers which I use elsewhere in my system (under amps, pre-amp, Dac and subs) so I could go that route.

Wait: Did I say 'subs?" Yes. I've been using a Rel Stadium 2 for well over a decade (or is it almost 2?) which has always performed flawlessly with such a variety of speakers (even so-called full range brands using dynamic drivers...) because I have found that no matter what speakers I've used, they ALL appreciated just the slightest very bottom hint of very low crossed-over bass to just bring out the flesh and bones presence a little more...the 'tangibility factor' I often describe is also well served by just a virtually un-noticeable trace of added weight at the very bottom...Once you've heard it on a system which you would never have suspected would appreciate it...you'll know what I mean. Just recently, as I was trying to tame the savage Divas to my room I invested in the notion that 2 subs would help balance out some of the peaks and nodes of the room so I picked up another identical Stadium 2 (thanks A'gon) which was a marked improvement overall (though you know the final story of the Divas regardless!). I ended up keeping both and they are a real compliment to the above mentioned 'presence'.

Considering I changed three variables ( we all know never to do more than one at the same time) I don't know what percent of the bass improvement I can attribute to the new Ultimates compared to the previously rebuilt speakers OR the added benefit of the Mye stands along with it OR the fact that I raised these speakers a few inches more than stock but I can emphatically attest to the incredible bass I am now experiencing with this setup. Who would have thought that pure ribbon planar speakers could deliver this much slam, extension and control down into the netherworld of bass. ( and P.S. It's really NOT the subs doing 99% of the work, as I've tried it without them turned on too). But holy crap... Wow. Sounds like yours are right there too. Cool huh?

All in all I'd say all the extra effort was well worth it... And good for you too... Excellent. Happy Lissn'n
Lissnr
 
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