New Apogee MRTW Ribbons?

[Nautilus]

Found this on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260864887529&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1123
Curious.....
Matthew

[Graz]

They look like something people (ex dealers?) have had in stock for a while from the old days - the corrugation looks a tad off track though, might be "B" stock.

In 1998 what the old factory had when closed got dumped out to dealers - A, B, C stock. One or two loads of this got dumped on ebay in Europe just over a decade ago just as I was getting into repairs. Not the same tolerance as the product I make fresh today, from the original specification foils incidentally

Take care - Graz

[artm]

I contacted the seller. The price is per piece, not per pair. That puts it in line with Graz's product, at least for Cals and Duettas. I told him that's not going to work.

He said:

"I've heard the Difference between the Original & the ones that Graham made.To be frank the ones Graham does is more Efficient not Better but the Original ones is much Sweeter & Musical Tonally."

Blah, blah, blah...

[Groove-T]

Maybe Graz should put some honey on his ribs to make them sweeter. Then they would be real spare ribs.

But imho it is incredible, what kind of bullshit some people tell to other ones, just to make a few dollars therewith .

For sure Graz make the best Aapogee ribbons ever available and each one is like the other one due lowest tolerances.

[JarreYuri]

Maybe Graz should put some honey on his ribs to make them sweeter. Then they would be real spare ribs. ......

[RedAlert]

I contacted the seller. The price is per piece, not per pair. That puts it in line with Graz's product, at least for Cals and Duettas. I told him that's not going to work.

He said:

"I've heard the Difference between the Original & the ones that Graham made.To be frank the ones Graham does is more Efficient not Better but the Original ones is much Sweeter & Musical Tonally."

Blah, blah, blah...

I've also contacted the seller and made him an offer...you know...the price he is asking is not a solid one...and he made to me an offer which I'm about to accept...much much cheaper than Graz ribbons...and no shippingcosts at all..

[User211]

I've also contacted the seller and made him an offer...you know...the price he is asking is not a solid one...and he made to me an offer which I'm about to accept...much much cheaper than Graz ribbons...and no shippingcosts at all..

Whilst that may seem a great deal to you, I am prepared to bet significant sums they are nowhere near as good as KLM5 ribbons. I base this on my experience of KLM3 versus KLM5 - KLM5 isn't just a bit better - it is a lot better.

Given that I think it likely that KLM3 was better than the old stock Apogee ribbons, you are paying a cheap price for a very significant performance penalty. All IMHO of course.

[artm]

... you are paying a cheap price for a very significant performance penalty.

No, he is paying what he wants for the quality he wants. That quality of product and sound may be "good enough", which is fine for many people. It does not have to be the "best sound" at the "most expensive" price.

If I recall, the stock Apogee sound was great at the time so why wouldn't it better today, with stock ribbons and BETTER electronics to drive them? Of course it would!

[Graz]

Justin's advice was well intended, and on track imho. Once can assume an owner of Apogee speakers is seeking the best solution for the task, that includes part+advice+instructions+backup. Taking the ribbons at face value (ignoring the small thin piece of kapton-backed foil at the front of the sales pic that does not relate to ANY Apogee) - you would have to ignore testimonials from short and long term owners as to their replacement experiences. At face value the pair of ribbons represent a $15 (per pair) saving on a pair of KLM2 ribbons (what is offered by me for home MRTW only installations for the Duetta/Caliper groups). People with my bass installed get an automatic upgrade to KLM5 ribbons when buying KLM2's for Duetta or Caliper also, below costs.

Tweeters are only up for replacement every 8-10 years in these speakers...

I believe what Art was saying "you pays your money, you takes your choice". Agreed.


Take care - Graz


The "evolution" of the Duetta/Caliper MRTW (3E) ribbon;-

1) Original USA Apogee 3EKS (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick)
2) Last run USA Apogee 3EKS (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (3 identical width traces)
3) Apogee (Graz) 3EKS (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff!
4) Apogee (Graz) 3EKLM (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) = better grade kapton, better grade kapton glue, glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff! Able to track HF better, very slightly
5) Apogee (Graz) 3EKLM2 (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) = better grade kapton, different chemical grade kapton glue, glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff! Able to track HF better
6) Apogee (Graz) 3EKLM5 (3 element, kapton - standard) ribbon (thick thin thick) = better grade kapton, different even more improved chemical grade kapton glue, glue removed from kapton between traces = no fluff! Installer only, or home install for those with my bass for the reason they are the best 3E ribbons made, close to production costs.

XLM 2 and XLM5 variations offered also throughout time , more detail, less warmth, subject to taste in the 3E configuration.

All use the EXACT same foil alloy as per the original company, since 1980.

[User211]

I meant to say KLM2 not KLM3 above.

KLM5 is a very different beast to KLM2. It even visibly moves differently - much less curl on the MRTW's edge - the whole ribbon seems to move instead. The new glue seems to have raised the performance bar by more than perhaps you'd think would be reasonable. Definately very good glue:)

Thnaks for the history, Graz, Interesting to know.

[Vansloneker]

For someone with old woofers and ribbons these new old stock ribbons will be an improvement. That is if they have not suffered from storage. Who knows where they've been the last 15 years? What support will the buyer get? They'd have to be filthy cheap to be an option imho (not for me).

For people who have experienced Graz KLM ribbons those generic ribbons will be a step back and they will be disappointed. Plenty of testimonials around here about the quality of Graz' ribbons!

[RedAlert]

I paid $300 for two Duetta MR/TWR ribbons and two Scintilla MR ribbons. Think what those would have been cost if puchased from Graz...are they x times worse...well everyone should make his/her own conclusion...